To cheat or not to cheat?

[Tonzafun IndyJok]

Ok a buddy and I have been having a discussion as to whither or not twinking is cheating.
I say it is not cheating. Why, because they allow it.
EQ IMO, is just about cheat proof. Yes, there are a few exploits but if they catch you, they can and will boot you from the game.
I think of it as your big brother or sister has hand me down gear.
Twinking gives you an advantage at lower levels that is all. I don't care how good your gear is if you suck at the game, the gear isn't going to help you. On the other hand, if you know how to play your character then it's gives you an edge, but only at lower levels, therefore to say it is cheating is absurd.
If you are a purest then twinking may not be for you but then who is a true purist? At some point in the game, you will be given gear or you will buy gear, should that not also be considered cheating?
You can say if you buy the gear with your own plat than you earned it. If this is your view then how can you say that if my main wins an item and gives it to an alt then I cheated; did I not earn that item?
Cheating IMO, is when you do something that you know is wrong, not aloud, or hurts another person.
Buying gear, winning gear, is not in any way cheating if you give it to an ALT.
What say you?

[Airelyn]

Twinking is not cheating heh.

Some people don't like twinking and that is fine... then they shouldn't do it.

I love twinking, I have fun with it... sometimes I twink with junk I have laying around and sometimes I go crazy and super twink.

When I started this game, I knew noone, noone to help me, I had no gear and no money.  I didn't beg for anything I had... I earned every piece of gear I got.  Heck I was lvl 20 when I finally got my whole set of banded armor.  Then I wore my crappy quest armor until about level 50... I didn't even break 200 wisdom until level 53, which is pretty sad for a cleric :)

So now I feel like I earned the right to twink like crazy if I want to :)

[Johnray]

I'm the buddy he's referring to here.  The argument is actually pretty pointless, simply because as Airelyn pointed out, it is up to the individual.

I have several characters that were PLed and twinked, and I enjoyed playing them at first.  Over time though, I found that I got bored with them quickly and I really got no sense of accomplishment from playing them.  

The argument is actually about the word "cheating".  When playing a new character I said that I consider it cheating  to PL or twink that character, beyond giving a few plat for new spells.  Tonz disagreed and said that it was not cheating.  I said it is cheating for me, not necessarily for anyone else.  By twinking or PL I am cheating myself of what I enjoy most about the game - the sense of accomplishment.  

I get no enjoyment out of running around whacking reds one time with a 40+ weapon and watching them die without losing a bulb of health.  I'm also not impressed that a twink can get to level 13 in one night of playing.  Of course they can!  When a twink tells me how bad arse their lvl 10 is because he can pummel three reds at a time without losing a bulb that doesn't make me ooh or ahhh.  The weapons or armor might be bad arse, but the skills sure aren't!  

But it all comes back to the word "cheating".  If I twinked, I'd be cheating myself, so therefore "cheating" is the correct term for me to use there.  If someone enjoys twinking out and levelling like crazy, then it's not cheating to them, and they should by all means do that.  Have fun!  That's what it's all about.

BTW - Tonz and I work together and play EQ most nights together, so we spend about 13-15 hours a day talking to each other.  We argue about everything, this is just our latest...   ask him about the Pledge of Allegiance sometime.... hehe...

Blessings!

Johnray the Barely Twinked

[Tonzafun IndyJok]

This is true, it is the word CHEATING that I find offensive. The proper word to use in this case would be gimp proofing. Frankly, I need no proof of his gimpness but he feels the need to spread his foolishness, if not slightly warped ideas and contaminating the air, I breathe with his tripe.
One other point my Gimp friend here is missing and with your indulgence might I also point out that this is a role-playing game? By not role-playing is in it's self cheating one's self of the RPG experience. So since all of his characters are twinks, with the exception of the one he is toying with now, and he is not role-playing this makes him the biggest cheater in the game by fooling himself into thinking he is not cheating.:D

Oh, just so there is no confusion, we hate each other  ROFL  just kidding.

[Johnray]

ROFL... Johnray a twink?  ROFL... I invite anyone to right click and inspect my poor gimpy monk equipment.  The absolute only thing I did that might be considered twinking was borrowing COTs at lvl 17.  I've still got mostly Wus armor!  

So if anyone is feeling sorry for me now, feel free to give me stuff.  Don't worry, I won't consider it cheating... ;)

[Kaneril Knightwing]

I dont think of twinking as cheating either. The gear does not make the character, the character makes the gear so to speak. PLing on the other hand I do think of as cheating. I'm not talking about the person that gets a guildmate or friend to help with that last bub of exp, I'm refering to the person that goes from lvl 1 to lvl 50+ in 2 weeks. THAT is cheating because you can not learn how to play a character properly by doing that. In this respect you cheat yourself out of the learning and you cheat anyone you group with that expects you to know what you are doing. My main is Kaneril a 53 Ranger and he has benifited from many gifts from friends and guildmates. I dont think he is "Twinked" :) Yampus, my lvl 42 Necro on the other hand IS twinked. Alot of the stuff is hand-me-downs from friends and some has been bought or donated from my main :) Funny thing is is now my Necro has more cash then my main (which isnt much lol). Anyway, my opinion for what it counts :)

[Saiferus]

ditto kane i have more problems with people that pl and dont know what the hell their doing. only thing that cheeses me more is when someone i know was pl form 1 to 50+ in 1 week or 2 as an enchanter tells me how to play my enchater i fought and scrapped my way up lvl 57 ever inch and as you well know me and raids its was a fight lol as stated its not a raids till saiferus dies atleast 1 time.

[Carellron]

It ain't a raid unless we both die Sai....



watchmesnaresomethinganddie

[Johnray]

It's like with the quests.  I could have someone just give me the stuff, but would that give me that excitement, that sense of accomplishment that drives me to do the Nearly Naked EQ Dance of Victory for my girlfriend?  No.

Like I always say.... if a game doesn't make you want to do the Nearly Naked Victory Dance for your loved ones, then what's the use in playing?

Deep in thought...

[Kaneril Knightwing]

Ok, RULE ONE!!! No quests for Johnray! I will need at least a WEEK to get that image out of my mind!:eek:

[Carellron]

Johnray,

you have way too much time on your hands.....I must wash my eyes with soap now to rid myself of that image.:eek:

[Fizzgig]

hehe I do the nakie dance of joy for douval when I manage something tricky....like to point out my nakie dance of joy happens on a whole different continant than jon's lol

[Kaneril Knightwing]

Hmmmm I think the aussie Upside Down Nearly Naked Dance of Joy is even MORE disturbing then the regular Nearly Naked Dance of Joy  :o

[Tonzafun IndyJok]

Well I know that John's AC wont reach way back in his Game room so it's like 114 in that room. So yes he is really naked when he play's. Thats why I won't group with him anymore. If I do help him I always bring a spare tunic and make him put it on first. Then I go and put on some gloves and take a shower after words because I feel so used. :D
Somehow playing EQ naked is just wrong! If I am taking him some where and he runs into trees and stuff while following me, kind of makes me wonder what he is doing and gives me the creeps. So I cast thorn shield on myself just in case he gets to close but most of the time I just stay invis so my friends don't see me with him.

[Saiferus]

NOTE: Johnray is never invited over the the dancer/divine home to play eq on any computers. for fear of him finishing a quest.

excuse me i think i need to to go wash my mind's eye out with sandpaper now gak